With the average age of divorce in this country being 45 to 55, Katie is keen to explore all of the challenges that come with relationships in midlife, and offer tips on how to navigate through these to build stronger relationships with our loved ones.
She speaks to fitness presenter Marvin Ambrosius and his wife Stehanie, an experienced relationship counsellor, about the impact of perimenopause and menopause on relationships, how men and women approach this phase of life differently, and why communication really is key.
Listen to the full conversation in The Latte Lounge podcast episode above.
S - A lot of people come presenting rejection, low libido, loss of interest in their partner and frustrations as a result of poor communication.
The person who you met originally isn't the person you’re with now, their needs have changed, as have yours.
S - Absolutely. Because it’s important to realise that you have your children watching you go through it as well. So how do you communicate that to them?
With the older children, or ‘the Boomerang Kids’, who've left home and then come back with their families, or as young adults, we need to teach them about it as well, so that they're more informed when they go through it themselves later, or their partner goes through it.
M - Again, it's seeing a different version of the other person.
You may have been with the same person for a long time, but during this menopausal period, they’re now seeing someone that they don't know, and it’s about open communication about what's happening and helping them understand how to support that.
KATIE'S BLOG: Communication - be careful what you wish for
M - Exercise releases endorphins, and anything that makes you feel good about yourself automatically transpires in you feeling good about everything else.
If you're feeling good, other people recognise that, and everybody loves compliments.
The better you understand yourself, the better you can communicate with your partner.
I'm learning things from Steph, but I'm also recognising things in myself that my clients are talking about. So I'm like, okay, that's what they're feeling, and this is what I need to be doing to support that.
S - Communication all the way. In any relationship, be it with your children, at work, with your partner or with your friends, when you're facing any of these symptoms, it's best to talk about it.
If I see young couples who aren't going through any perimenopause or anything, I like to start off by discussing the menstrual cycle.
A lot of my clients have got in their diaries their partner's menstrual cycle so that they know that this is the period of the month when they need to be a little bit more sensitive, not take things personally and know that her mood might fluctuate, sex might be off the cards for that week, or on the cards to do it in a different way.
Our culture has changed a bit. Now menopause isn't as taboo anymore, and there's more information out there, we talk about it a bit more now.
But people still feel a bit guarded about it, some women don't really want to admit to the fact that they're at that stage of life because it's scary.
M - I think of adults as being like grown-up children.
That's all we are, we're still children, and we're still growing up, and we're just pretending to be adults.
As we move to each new phase, we're still navigating whilst raising our own children.
So just know this, we're going to make mistakes.
S - First of all, it's about reflecting on where some of your sadness or your lack of self-confidence comes from.
Is it just related to the relationship, is it to do with work, family pressures, or financial pressures, or is something else causing low mood and self-esteem.
Communicating is harder for some than others. But it's all about the listener as well.
You base your communication on experience, so if you’ve said something in the past and been shut down, you're not going to try it again for fear of rejection.
So I think the biggest thing for both partners is to really listen to each other, listen to your partner, knowing that they own that emotion and not dismissing it.
You’re partners, you're in it together, so ask what you can do to support them.
They may not have the solution, but sometimes it's a discussion, and you decide together how you can support them. So communication on both sides is very important.
My Grandma taught me to scream if I'm happy and scream if I'm sad.
Stephanie
M - I'm working with a lot of men, they can be very guarded and feel pressure to have everything under control.
The problem with that is you're just basically putting more weight on your back, you're adding more pressure.
And then, when one thing falls apart, everything falls apart. That's why we've seen such an increase in suicides of men between the ages of 35 and 55.
It’s because they're just internalising everything, thinking they've got to hold the fort when actually, they should just talk to the people closest to them.
If somebody is telling you that they’re struggling right now, take it seriously. It could be really small, it could be the smallest problem to you, but the biggest problem for that person.
So I think it's really important that if they're saying something they've never said before out of the blue, really pay attention because it took a lot.
In our relationship, I noticed from pretty much the first day that if Steph didn't like something, she would tell me.
And that was new to me. It took me years to learn and master the skill of saying I don't like that, but if you don’t, you're adding a number of things that you don't like in your relationship, and you'll actually put a building block of negatives whereas if you address these issues immediately, there's no longer a problem.
S - My Grandma taught me to scream if I'm happy and scream if I'm sad. If things are going right, maximise, tell your partner that you're happy.
Say, “I like that, I want more of that”. During menopause, in terms of sex and libido, if you feel like you can, then do it because there are times where you feel like you can't. If you feel that things are good, communicate that.
There must be a balance because some people only scream when it's bad, and that's not going to help the relationship at all.
S - It's really important to find that quality time.
Some people say that they prefer to go into a restaurant and talk about their problems there because they can't raise their voice, there's other people around.
Personally, I think you just need to say something when you need to say it, so if other people are around, then you can edit it or perhaps wait until the children are in bed.
But walks in the park and things like that are very helpful because people tend to express themselves when they're out there in the open air with nature. They can think while they talk, which really helps.
A common symptom of menopause and perimenopause is just feeling very tired and lethargic. And a lot of couples try to have some quality time and watch a movie together or just have a conversation.
But if you’re falling asleep or exhausted because you can't sleep at all, it's important to find the right time to have that quality time.
It’s important to remember that a lot of the conversation about menopause and communication, in general, is completely different for all couples based on cultural differences as well.
The way your grandparents did or didn't communicate about menopause may have trickled down to the way your parents communicated about it and, in turn, how you do it.
It's about changing that culture if you can for your family and developing a new set of views, values, and beliefs to work into your relationship and what you would like that to look like.
S - For a lot of couples, it's such a hard conversation to have, so that communication breaks down.
Some of my clients say,”we'll be on the sofa watching a movie, they'll snuggle into me, and I'll feel that I can't snuggle because that's giving the wrong impression. I'm giving mixed signals because then he's going to think tonight's the night. If he thinks that, then what if it hurts? And what if it's not comfortable? How do I then say no?”.
They have to really have this conversation and explain that it’s not you, I'm still attracted to you, I still love you, I still desire you.
But it's painful, or it's just something that I can't commit to right now.
And later on, couples tend to find that they have less sex.
Sometimes sex is still on the cards, but differently.
There are other things that you can do, you might not have intercourse, but try other things which could be quite exciting.
Some of my elderly couples decide that they bond in so many other ways and find happiness in so many other ways that actually, they don't need to have sex because we make love by laughing together, by sharing time together, by playing games together, dancing together.
RELATED: Sex and relationships in the menopause
M - There are definitely layers in terms of how you feel about yourself and how you display who you are to your partner.
It's really important that you discover your true happiness because one thing that I've realised is that your outer self isn't always a reflection of how you're feeling.
One thing that I've always explained to clients and people that I work with is that you need to be 100% happy with yourself today to work on a better version of yourself tomorrow.
The thing that I've realised is the strategy to feeling good about yourself is having a routine that you know is not dedicated to making someone else like you better or look good.
It's to feel good. It's about releasing that energy, those endorphins.
By walking into a gym or even creating a gym environment at home, you're doing something to better yourself, and if you're feeling better about yourself, you feel better in your relationship.
Even more so if you're both doing it together.
Feeling good about yourself automatically increases your libido as well, but it's not the fix that people think it is, having the perfect body doesn’t mean you’ll have the perfect mind.
So you have to approach it holistically.
That's why the focus on counselling or therapy and fitness at the same time works.
RELATED: Different ways to get fit in midlife
S - It's all about reflection. How were you feeling about your partner when you first met?
How are you feeling about them now? Why has that changed, what things have happened in your life externally which might be causing some low mood or sadness?
You may have just become a parent, or you may be trying to become a parent, what stage of life are you in?
Because external pressures weigh heavily on us sometimes.
It’s also about communicating, as I’ve said.
Communicating with your partner and telling them how you're feeling in a non-directive way, owning your emotion and saying that you’d like to tell them how you're feeling right now rather than making statements like “you never talk to me anymore, you don't love me anymore, you never want to touch me”. If you are blaming your partner, they're just going to have their back up, and come back with another blame. And then you're in a cycle of tit for tat.
Own your emotion, discuss how you're feeling and try to find a way forward together if you can.
If all else fails, see a relationship counsellor or attend relationship therapy, it's always a help, and you don't have to wait until things are going wrong in your relationship to see a relationship counsellor, you can go at any time.
A lot of people go just to maintain a good relationship and make sure that they don't have any stumbling blocks along the way because everyone does, and we need to know how to work through them together.
Talk to your partner, talk to your friends and family if you need to but find some support from someone who can help with some solutions and tools, some ways of communicating.
Choose someone who's not too close, sometimes we don't want to worry our parents, for example and won’t speak freely but choose someone who will give you some home truths as well.
Someone who will tell you if you’re being unreasonable. That's important as well.
Remember that all couples are different, and you only see the highlights on social media. You never see the hard times.
M - I don't think anybody would be on social media, they knew what was going on in most people's lives.
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M - Find something you love. Steph found her fitness through dance and is pretty much working out every day of the week just because she loves doing it.
It's just a proven fact that if you do something you enjoy, you will continue to do it.
Also, focus on not just what you are going to look like, visualise the person you want to be.
Not the aesthetic version of yourself, but just the entirety of who you want to be holistically as well.
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